On the "limitation" of Li

查其辰 • 2023-11-20

Confucius is not in line with inhumanity.
First, under no circumstances can we agree to such a judgement that freedom is simply about following emotional instinct. Pain and pleasure are not our sovereign masters. As Kant suggests, our rational capacity makes us distinctive from the animals. Freedom is not doing what we want or avoiding pain. The so-called freedom is actually just acting according to natural necessity.
For Kant, freedom is the opposite of necessity. Respect human dignity means regarding persons not just as means but also as ends in themselves.This is why it is wrong to use people for the sake of other people's well-being or happiness.
Freedom is autonomous instead of heteronomous.
Second, Li or rituals are not just about organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors. The connotation of Li includes many aspects, not only formal etiquette, but also ethics, social order, governance, etc. It is related to benevolence, reason, empathy, and so on. Humans are not animals that act solely based on instinct. Sometimes following etiquette may seem to bring 'pain' and 'restraint', but it brings long-term benefits. True freedom is not just about momentary joy. People are social animals, and are the sum of their social relationships. If we all act in pursuit of momentary pleasure and disrupt social order, we cannot enjoy the benefits of a well-regulated social order. Third, The traditional Chinese social and economic structure requires "Li", which is a norm and a code that represents order and stability. From a political perspective, "Li" is the foundation of governing a country and the fundamental way to maintain social stability. Li is the application of heavenly principles in human society, and its purpose is to maintain social order and regulate interpersonal relationships.
From an economic perspective, "Li" is also essential. In traditional society, people need cooperation to improve productivity, and "Li" is an important driving force to promote cooperation. Ancient China was a farming civilization, and in agricultural production, people need to follow the "Li" of observing seasonal changes, respecting the elderly and caring for the young, and helping each other to ensure the smooth progress of production. At the same time, "Li" also regulates people's behavior in economic activities, such as commercial transactions, thus ensuring the stability and sustainable development of economy.
"Li" plays an important role in China's traditional political and economic structures. It not only regulates people's behavior, promotes social stability and prosperity, but also embodies people's pursuit of order, respect, and harmony.

•Metaphysics and monotheism
1.Metaphysics
First, western philosophers have a strong thirst for knowledge about the unknown things. They not only focus on the specific things, but also pursue a deep understanding of the essence and principles. Curiosity drives them to explore the existence beyond the sensory experience, thus providing the ideological basis for the emergence of metaphysics.
Second, western philosophers attach great importance to the analysis and reasoning of language and concepts. Through dialogue and debate, they try to find a deeper truth in the phenomenal world. For example, Socrates' metaphysical view, which emphasizes the importance of human self-knowledge and wisdom. He believes that through thinking and dialogue, people can transcend the sensory experience and realize the essence and existence of reality.
2.monotheism
Monotheism believes there is only one inclusive god, which imainly refers to high level monotheism, such as Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. These religions all regard the gods that they worship as the sole creator of the universe and the sourceof all things.
Ancient Greek and ancient Roman societies experienced great changes between the 8th century BC and the 2nd century AD. With the formation of the city-state system, the development of commerce and the political stability, people began to pursue a higher spiritual life, hoping to have a unified belief to meet their spiritual needs.
Ancient Greek and Roman philosophers raised many basic questions about the nature of the universe and the existence of human beings, such as what is the origin of the world? Is there a soul or an entity? The exploration of these issues provides the theoretical basis for the emergence of monotheism.

•Maritime Countries and Continental Countries
The difference between Continental civilization and Marine civilization is an important reason for westerners 's misunderstanding of "Li"
Continental civilization is usually characterized by stability and conservatism. It tends to maintain the existing culture and ideas, holds a conservative attitude towards new cultures and ideas, and has high cultural conservatism and stability.
Continental civilization is usually based on agriculture and has a strong dependence on land, which also affects cultural, political and social systems.
Continental civilization usually has the characteristics of power centralization and hierarchy, which are also reflected in the political, economic and social systems.
However, Marine civilization is usually characterized by openness and inclusiveness, and it is good at absorbing and accepting different cultures and ideas, and has high cultural diversity and innovation.
It usually has the characteristics of developed trade and commerce, and it is good at using Marine resources for trade and commercial activities, which also promotes cultural exchanges and economic development.
Marine civilization is inclined to individualism and liberalism, and sometimes fails to understand the idea of Continental civilization.

kkkkkkahrine • 2023-11-20

No. Confucianism has certain limitations, and self-denial is opposite to man's natural emotions to some extent, requiring people to restrain their emotions and desires to achieve the requirements of "rites". Confucius advocated that Li was essential in promoting social harmony and respect for others, but also emphasized the dispensibility of compassion, empathy and individual expression. In fact, he stated that a person must first develop oneself before being able to properly engage with society and Li. In addition, Confucianism believed 3 levels of benevolence: family-based love, society-based love and cosmic love, and the love within these 3 systems are interrelated and have a common philosophical basis, that is zhongyong in Confucius' ides, as the embodiment of humanity.

5班杜金哲 • 2023-11-20

No, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity based on the idea that Li or rituals are about organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors.

Confucius and his followers believed that Li and rituals were important in fostering social harmony and promoting ethical behavior. They saw these practices as vehicles for transmitting ethical values and shaping social norms, which could help people behave in ways that were consistent with their own moral compass.

While it is true that some people may see Li and other Confucian practices as being restrictive or limiting of individual freedom, this perspective overlooks the fact that these practices are intended to be adaptable to individual and social circumstances. Confucians believe that ethical behavior should be dynamic and responsive to the needs of the situation, rather than fixed or rigid.

Furthermore, Confucius placed great emphasis on the cultivation of personal virtues, such as benevolence, sincerity, and humility. He believed that by developing these virtues, individuals could become more fully themselves and more capable of contributing to society. Ultimately, Confucianism seeks to balance the needs of the individual with the needs of society as a whole, recognizing that both are important.

李静一 • 2023-11-20

1. What is "Freedom"?

According to Kant, man's free will is the untouchable core. The essence of freedom is the ability of human beings themselves, not the rights given by others. Therefore, Kant believes that any restriction of freedom is contrary to human nature and immoral.

2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

In ancient China, rites were the social ordinances and moral norms. As a legal system, it is the embodiment of the social and political system, and is the maintenance of the superstructure and the corresponding etiquette and ceremony in interpersonal communication. As a moral code, it is the standard and requirement for all behaviors of national leaders and nobles. The function of ritual in Chinese traditional culture is to maintain social order and harmonious relations between people. It is a cultural tradition inherited from China for thousands of years, and it is also an important part of Chinese culture.

3. Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

Marine countries, Marine countries in a broad sense as long as adjacent to the sea are counted, generally referring to the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Japan and Japan and the United States, China is also a Marine country. Continental countries, continental countries are landlocked countries, the territory does not include the sea, France, Germany and Russia are continental countries.

4. Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?

The origins of metaphysics in ancient Greece can be traced back to the early philosophers' reflections on the "first cause." They seek to explore the origin and nature of the universe and existence, going beyond merely focusing on the world known by the senses. Metaphysics involves the exploration of ontology, teleology, and causology of existence, aiming to understand the fundamental structure and truth of the world.

5. Can we draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity (as suggested by Bertrand Russel on page 54)?

No, the theory of human nature in the real sense begins with Confucius' "hidden goodness theory". "Recessive" means that Confucius did not explicitly state that human nature is good. On the one hand, it shows that Confucius has not clearly defined the consciousness of human nature with good and evil, which reflects the simplicity and chaos of Confucius' thought. On the other hand, it also means that we can interpret Confucius' theory of human nature through the overall grasp of Confucius' thought, which we need to expound. The implicit "good nature" means that Confucius' concept of human nature is actually "good nature theory" or tends to "good nature theory" rather than "evil nature theory". Confucius emphasized "the gentleman is harmonious but different" and advocated social harmony, that is, human nature is the essence of approaching and then society returns to harmony, so it is not considered to suppress humanity or inhuman.

陈玉婷18班 • 2023-11-20

1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice）

Kant thinks that freedom is the capacity of autonomy.Justice is giving people what they deserve. It’s a matter of figuring out between persons, with their virtues, and their appropriate social rules.Kant thinks that government and politics are existed to ensure human rights and freedom,if we tie justice to a specific social rule or a conception of good, then there’s no room of freedom, because freedom should be independent from any conventional, particular social rules.

Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

It plays an important role in maintaining social order and governing the country.In ancient China, through strict etiquette and rules, the state could control and manage society. Rituals, as a social norm and moral code, provide order and stability for society. Rituals can also play a role in educating people's thinking. By educating people to abide by rules and respect tradition, we aim to establish correct values and moral values, thereby promoting the development of society towards a more civilized and progressive direction.

3. Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

The Greeks lived ina maritime country and maintained their prosperity thought commerce. They were primarily merchants. they are accustomed to change and are not afraid of novelty.Continental Countries，this is the view of one who admire the natural and condemns the artificial. The way of life of the farmers is to follow nature. They admire nature and condemn the artificial,and in their primitivity and innocent,they are easily made content.

Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?

In the process of exploring the problem of origin in early Greek philosophy, philosophers gradually abstracted the materials used to explain the origin, and their way of thinking gradually became rational, shifting from natural philosophy to metaphysics. Therefore, in ancient Greece, metaphysics manifested itself as an ontological philosophy, seeking the ultimate cause, the most universal, and essential general principles for the existence of all things in the world.

Regarding the rise of monotheism: The increase in connectivity between civilizations may have inspired the belief in the unity of the gods. People will find connections between the gods they believe in and the gods of other civilizations. They began to see that different gods and gods were not opposed to each other, but rather expressed the same concepts.

No, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.Confucius' way of Li contains inner nature and involves external etiquette. It is not only based on self-cultivation, but also embodies the ideal of peace. However, the essence of his ideology is that the humanistic education displayed by Li is carried out through etiquette. Although it appears to regulate speech and behavior, making people have rules in everything, the intrinsic value implication is to handle relationships between people, achieve inferiority and respect for others.

胡文静 • 2023-11-20

No, we can not draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity based solely on the belief that Li or rituals conflict with human emotional instinct and free spirit sometimes. Firstly, while Li plays a significant role in Confucianism as a way to establish order and structure in society, it does not mean that Confucius advocated for the suppression of human emotions or the denial of individual freedom.
Secondly, as Kant said, our understanding of individual freedom can not only be limited to the obeyance of our thirst or desire freely, acting as the slaves of those appetites and impulses. Respecting human dignity does not mean complying with their desire or necessity. Also, It is important to consider the wider context of Confucianism before concluding his philosophy. His emphasis on rituals and social order should be seen as complementary to the cultivation of virtues and personal growth, rather than as conflicting with human nature or free spirit. It should be noted that personal growth and social development are mutually reinforcing.

19班彭红刚 • 2023-11-20

I think Confucius' idea of 'Li' is in line with humanity

Firstly, we understand what emotional instincts and the spirit of freedom are.

Instinct refers to the innate behavioral responses of humans, which are generated based on the needs of survival and reproduction.

Emotion is a human response to external stimuli. It is composed of our thoughts, behaviors, and physical reactions. Emotions are generated by multiple factors, including our family, culture, social environment, and personal experience. Emotional reactions can be positive, such as joy, happiness, and love, or negative, such as sadness, anger, and fear.

The spirit of freedom refers to a mentality or quality in which people pursue freedom in their thinking and behavior. An attitude and behavior that pursues autonomy, independence, and openness. Under the guidance of the spirit of freedom, people are able to freely express their opinions, freely choose their beliefs and values, and freely pursue their ideals and goals.

The interconnection between people constitutes a complex social network, and the psychological adjustment of each individual within this network may ultimately affect the changes in the entire society. Confucius used Li to regulate the order of elders and children, so that he could organize his kinship and social relationships well, and political relations could naturally be improved. In this way, the goal of stabilizing social order was achieved, and the people could live and work in peace under a stable social order. Confucius integrated the regulation of human ethics and social order into the thought of rule of Li, and this also expressed the ideal of the Great Harmony Society pursued by Confucius.

Only when we are all in a stable social order and good social relationships can we freely pursue our goals and ideals, and freely choose our beliefs and values. If everyone follows their instinctual emotions and desires, then society will be chaotic, disorderly, cruel, and cold-blooded. Confucius said, "If you are respectful but impolite, you will labor; if you are cautious but impolite, you will be timid; if you are brave but impolite, you will be disorderly; if you are straight but impolite, you will be strangled." （“恭而无礼则劳，慎而无礼则葸（xǐ），勇而无礼则乱，直而无礼则绞。”)Confucius believed that without the norms and moderation of Li, even virtues will deteriorate.

So Confucius pushed the role of propriety from regulating people's ethical relations to improving social relations, and finally adjusting political relations. Confucius proposed that the purpose of Li is to rectify chaos, so the role of Li can be pushed from an individual to a national level. This is not inhumane, it is precisely the most humanity.

廖红艳 • 2023-11-20

No.

(1)Li requires people to express their emotions sincerely and appropriately. It does not abate or strangle people's emotional instinct.

(2)People often regard their eschewing pains in favor of pleasure without behavioural requirements as freedom. But it is not. According to Kant, freedom is to act according to a law one gives to himself. Seemingly plausible that people is free once acting without any behavioural restrictions is, it is lopsided. It's only animal's instinct and cannot distinguish human from animals. Confucius's Li just proposed a behavioural law for ancient Chinese to follow. It is not against human free spirit.

Besides, Confucius also strengthened filial piety, sincere emotions, Ren and so forth, which shows Confucius's humanity. We should take a whole view of Confucius idea rather than overgenralize his thoughts casually.

18班文英竹 • 2023-11-20

I don’t agree with that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

From Kant’s view, we can learn about the freedom is act automatically, and the opposite is heteronomy. And the freedom is connected with morality. He says what makes an action morally worth consists not in the consequences or in the results that flow from it, what makes an action morally worth has to do with the motive, with the quality of the will, with the intention for which the act is done. What matters is the motive and the motiv must be of a certain kind. Therefore, we can know that freedom is not completely free, it is constricted by laws or good well.

What’s more,in ancient China, the system of politics was absolute monarchy, Li could help monarch govern country and people, preserve the social harmony.

And in nowadays China, Li becomes more and more important, because with the development of economy, politics and culture, people should follow Li to make the society becomes more and more comfortable and harmonious.

18杨睿 • 2023-11-20

Confucius is not inhumane. Confucius lived in a chaotic and disorderly era, and he hoped to restore the Zhou ceremony to put society back on track.

The formation of an idea is related to social culture, geographical environment, and social development stages. During the Spring and Autumn period when Confucius lived, society had developed into a settled agricultural civilization, which was also known as an agricultural society. Agricultural development requires a relatively stable social order. On the contrary, the idea of 'freedom' is not conducive to social stability.

So, Confucius advocates Li, which is the demand of the times.

21班蔡秋月 • 2023-11-20

No, we can't draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity as suggested by Bertrand Russel.

According to Kant's idea of Justice, freedom means to act according to a law I give myself not based on the physical laws of nature or the laws of cause and effect which include the desire to eat and drink or to choose this. According to the textbook, the Greeks, who have a form of social organization not based on the common interest of the family so much as on that of the town, organized their society around the city state, in contrast with the Chinese social system, which may be called that of the family state because under it the state is conceived of in terms of the family. And in a family state, the social organization is automatic and hierarchic because in a family state the authority of the father is naturally superior to that of the son. Therefore, Li was greatly needed and put forward at that time. It is obviously true that Confucius's idea of Li was designed to regulate people's behaviors as it extended, but it doesn't mean that it requires to suppress human emotional instinct and free spirit. Confucius emphasized that people should conform to the social norms of etiquette to achieve a harmonious social order. More than that, he also emphasized the importance of human emotional instinct and free spirit which are essential parts of the human nature. He was not trying to suppress people's free emotions and spirits but to give guidance for people to express them in a right way.

3班王曦 • 2023-11-20

No, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity. There three reasons.

First of all, in Kant’s conception of freedom, it is not doing whatever you want, but to act autonomously and act according to a law that you give yourself. The most important aspect of necessity that man has to grasp comes from society and social relations. Human freedom is conditioned by social relations. In order to realize the satisfaction of their own needs and to obtain greater freedom, human beings must not only be bound by natural norms, but must also consciously be bound by social etiquette norms.The observance of etiquette and human freedom are not contradictory, but dialectically unified.

Secondly, the closed and scattered agricultural economy in ancient China was formed by special geographical conditions, which belonged to a land country, and most of the agricultural activities were based on the family, so it was relatively conservative and cohesive. This is naturally different from the adventurous thinking of the West. In addition, the political system of ancient China was relatively stable. With the characteristics of the ancient Chinese economic and political structure, ritual is a necessary condition for maintaining social stability and economic development.

Thirdly, gods in different cultures are originated from the same divine source. In that cases, religious movements began to demand the worship of a single God. They regard monotheism as a step toward progress. Plato believed that people's feelings can change at any time, and only abstract reason can escape the uncertainty of our thoughts and have eternal significance. This philosophical tendency leads the individual to transcend the sensory experience and seek a higher level of truth.

In terms of political thought, economic theory, and educational thought, Confucius emphasized the conscience and foundation of human inner emotions and combined them with benevolence. In conclusion, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

11班黄奕灵 • 2023-11-20

Confucius' concept of Li, or rituals, should not be seen as conflicting with human emotional instinct and free spirit. Instead, it is important to understand that Li plays a crucial role in organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors within a Confucian framework.

We often think of freedom as simply consisting in doing what we want or in the absence of obstacles to getting what we want. But according to Kant’s idea of freedom, seeking after pleasure and satisfaction of our desires isn’t real freedom. When we act like these, we just act according to natural necessity. However, freedom is opposite the necessity. To act freely is to act autonomously according to a law that we give ourselves, not to the physical laws of nature. He said “To be free is to act heternomously according to an inclination or desire that I haven’t chosen for myself”. So, behaving under certain restrictions is real freedom.

In traditional Chinese society, “Ritual”, played a crucial role in society's economic and political structure. Rituals were seen as a means to establish and maintain social harmony. They provided a set of rules and guidelines for people's behavior, ensuring that individuals acted in accordance with their social roles and responsibilities. By adhering to rituals, people demonstrated respect for authority, maintained social order, and promoted stability within the community. It serves as a guide for individuals to navigate their roles and responsibilities within society, fostering social order and stability. By adhering to Li, individuals are encouraged to develop virtuous qualities such as filial piety, integrity, and benevolence.

The geographic background of Chinese people also influenced the setting of Rituals. China is a continental country with agriculture served as the major activity. On the contrary, maritime countries like Greek maintained their prosperity through commerce. The Greek lived together in towns and organized their society around the city state. But in a family state, in China, the social organization is automatic and hierarchic because in a family the authority of the father is naturally superior to that of the son.

It is crucial to note that Confucianism emphasizes the balance between individual freedom and social harmony. While Li provides a structure, it does not rigidly restrict human emotional expression or personal development. Rather, it seeks to enhance human relationships by promoting ethical conduct and moral values. Confucius' teachings encourage individuals to express their emotions and cultivate their inner virtues, while recognizing the importance of harmonious interactions with others. Thus, it would be incorrect to conclude that Confucius and the concept of Li are in line with inhumanity.

9班谭章宇 • 2023-11-20

1.What is free？
According to Kant, true freedom is considered to be man's free will to act according to his own legislation, which is not bound by the natural law and gets rid of the physical instinct in the sense of moral practice.Man is still perfectly free in the face of all natural necessity, he is free to act without moral law, he knows in his heart what he "ought" to do, and only when he does so is he truly free.

2.Why did the economic and political structure of traditional Chinese society need Li?
"Li" is an important part of Chinese culture, which plays an important role in maintaining the social order and administering the country. It played the role of spiritual pillar and spiritual core in Chinese traditional law. They fused, supplemented and permeated with law to maintain the general goal of feudal unification. Rite is regarded as the fundamental law in the traditional feudal legal system of China, and its important content is fixed by the rulers in the form of law, which has become the basic principles and guidelines of legislation, law enforcement and judicature.

3.Why did the Greek and Roman tradition in Western culture give birth to metaphysics and monotheism?
When philosophy, as a reflection on knowledge, became a form of knowledge in ancient Greece, the resulting philosophy was determined by its mode of thinking's formalized understanding of existence for existence - the goal of seeking objective basic existence independent of man - which led to the deepening study of the form of existence, despite Plato's warning that attention should be paid to the role of ideas. His student, Aristotle, still ascribes existence to form and thus sets philosophy in its formal form, establishing a system of ancient Greek philosophy that has a lasting influence on the course of Western philosophy.

4.Can we draw the conclusion that Confucius is
in line with inhumanity
In the relationship between human being and rites and moral norms, the Confucius state is reversed. Human beings should have their own values, but Confucius and Confucianism reduced human values to ritual and righteous morality. Only by doing things according to ritual and righteousness morality, human beings have human values and become human beings. This actually negates human values. Moreover, the rites and righteousness morality was originally formulated by people and should serve people, but in the Confucius country it became the inevitable law that people must obey unconditionally and became the rope that bound people. It is not difficult to see from this that humanism talks about the liberation of human personality, and people free themselves from the shackles of religious theology and realize human value in their own creative actions. But the person that the Confucianism talks about is the person in the present case of rite and righteousness, this kind of person has lost the essence of person in fact, become a kind of rite and righteousness moral existence completely. In human values, humanitarianism emphasizes the human-centeredness and the supremacy of human beings, while Kong Yu emphasizes the supremacy of rite and righteousness morality. Only when a person acts according to rite and righteousness morality can he be of value. This is the fundamental difference between Confucianism and humanism.

4班周雪梅 • 2023-11-20

I think we can't draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

Firstly, according to Kont's idea of justice, freedom does not mean that we can do anything we want without obstacles, but rather without any desires. In my opinion, 'Li' is helping to maintain and build a harmonious society so that we can be more free.

Secondly, considering geographical factors, China belongs to a continental country, with most of the area located inland. Chinese social system may be called that of the family state because under it the state is conceived of in terms of the family. In a city state the social organization is not automatic, because among the sa e class of townsmen, there is nc moral reason why one should be more important than, or superior to, another. But in a family state, the Social organization is automatic and hierarchic because in a family the authority of the father is naturally superior to that of the son. So 'Li' plays an important role in traditional Chinese economic and political life. It is not only a moral norm, but also a legal norm, and an important means of national governance and social order maintenance.

赵佳欣 • 2023-11-20

No.Li is the minimum moral code that people are required to abide by in order to maintain the normal life of the society. It is gradually formed in people's long-term common life and mutual communication, and is fixed by customs, habits and traditions. For a person, etiquette is the external expression of ideological and moral level, cultural accomplishment and communicative ability. For a society, etiquette is the reflection of the degree of civilization, moral fashion and life habits of the home societyFor Kant, freedom is the opposite of necessity. Respect for human dignity means seeing people not only as means, but as ends in themselves. This is why it is wrong to take advantage of others for their happiness or pleasure.Freedom is autonomous, not governed by othersThere is no contradiction between the pursuit of freedom and the observance of etiquette. People can not be an island, we have to maintain the self at the same time, integrate into the collective..

王廖佳 • 2023-11-20

What is "Freedom"?

For Kant, freedom is the opposite of necessity, that means act autonomously, to act according to a law that I give to myself, not according to the physical laws of nature. To sum it up, freedom is autonomy. Many people think of freedom as being free to do what you want. But that would be wrong. Because when people start to do things as their own likes, they will do anything for their own benefit first, they may steal, they may rob, and that leads to the problem of violating the interests of others. People are supposed to be safe in their own space as individual cells, and when this freedom encroaches on the space of others' interests, it disturbs the balance, that is to say, it violates the law of justice. Freedom, therefore, is action against the laws of nature, on the basis of the rational man, without encroaching on the interests of others.

Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Li"?

As mentioned in the article, first, compared with maritime countries, Chinese social system may be called “family sate” which is conceived of in terms of the family. In this kind of state, the social organization is automatic and hierarchic, the authority of the father is naturally superior to that of the son. Therefore, it is precisely because of this natural division of hierarchy that we need to normalize, or strengthen, this etiquette mechanism in order to stabilize the social structure, maintain social stability, and maintain the monarchy.The second reason I think is to conform to the traditional Chinese mentality, that is “they desire no change nor can they conceive of any change.” China values nature and abhors artificiality. And Li conform to the laws of heaven and earth and Yin and Yang. At the same time, the small-scale peasant economy also makes us prefer a stable social ideology.

On the "limitation" of Li.

We can not draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity. Because when we go back to the meaning of Li, it actually has something to do with Kant’s autonomy, which both emphasizes rational thinking and internalized moral principles. Rousseau said, “man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.” " Tocqueville said, “"Whoever demands excessive independence is actually seeking excessive enslavement." The norms of social order require the help of ideology, which in China is Li. Li is not against human nature, but to help us become a more rational person.

文吉丽 • 2023-11-20

My answer is no, we cannot conclude that Confucius is consistent with inhumanity. The idea that Li stands against individual freedom, organization and construction of society and individual behavior is superficial.

In order to prove this conclusion, we should first discuss what is freedom. According to Kant, freedom is the freedom to act according to certain laws, rather than according to the natural laws and physical laws of physics. Freedom of action is to choose the goal for oneself, one can choose his own desires. Speaking of Li, in the Chinese social system, we are based on the common interests of the family, and the country is conceived according to the family. Therefore, social organization is hierarchical, and the authority of the father is higher than that of the son. Second, because of their geographical location, continental countries are based on natural economies, while maritime countries will rely more heavily on overseas trade than continental countries. Finally, the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture gave rise to metaphysics and monotheism.

Therefore, because of the differences between Chinese and Western cultures, it does not make sense that Confucius alone advocates Li or rituals to organize and construct social and individual behavior. Confucius advocated not only politeness, but also loyalty, filial piety and morality, which are important components of traditional Chinese culture. Confucius also advocated respect for human nature, opposition to barbarism, and emphasis on spiritual freedom. In short, Confucius thought is complex and multi-faceted, both to maintain the social order and attach importance to the human spirit, only from a single side can not draw this conclusion.

6班吴梦绮 • 2023-11-20

1.   Freedom not just to do what one wants or make choice by themselves. Instead, freedom means that we can act freely, which means act autonomously according to a law people give themselves. This is the the physical laws of nature but include people's own desire.
  2.   In ancient China, the social system is called family state, and the social organization is not automatic, because there is no superiority among the townsmen, there must be some regulations to control the whole society to guarantee the order of the society. Like principle is held to maintain social order and hierarchy.
  3.   In Western culture, the countries emphasized the role of reason and autonomy, this can be seen as a continuation of Western tradition's search for underlying truths and principles, which is the foundation for metaphysics and the development of monotheistic religion.
  4.   No, Confucius isn't inhumanity. The principles of Confucius aimed to teach people self-restraint, moderation and the most important aspect is teaching people courtesy. Confucius spread self-control idea to the whole society to let people always keep calm and control all their actions. Confucius just wanted through these principles to lead people take moral duty and learn to respect others.
        So Confucius is not in line with inhumanity.

张芮菡 • 2023-11-20

We cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

"Free" is not entirely free. In a sense, "freedom" is limited. The "rites" advocated in Chinese traditional culture is the spiritual core of the development of that particular era. With the development of monarchical power and the further standardization of social hierarchy, the "rites" advocated by Zhou Li is actually "the life of the hierarchy", which is a social norm. The "rites" advocated by Confucius also include further guidance and regulation of human emotions and behavior.Confucius guided people to express themselves correctly in the correct social norms, and through learning "Li", individual freedom could be better realized, rather than catering to social norms at the cost of sacrificing their own free will. In addition, the development of Chinese and Western civilization is divided into farming civilization with pragmatic spirit and Marine civilization with adventurous spirit, so the cultural differences and cultural propositions are also different.

In my opinion, the "courtesy" advocated by Confucius is conducive to better expressing oneself and conforming to the development of society.

14班彭范萌 • 2023-11-21

The idea of Kant in the video can be summarized as follows: freedom means independent action, and according to the legal freedom granted to oneself by a person, it is a force that starts from oneself, and the only way to exercise this force is through one's own law of will, that is, moral law. The ideas of "benevolence", "virtue", "loyalty", and "filial piety" advocated by Confucius are important components of traditional Chinese culture, shaping the character and spirit of the Chinese nation. These ideas are deeply rooted in the daily lives of Chinese people. The social system of ancient China was called the family state. In a family state, social organization is automatic and hierarchical, because in a family, the authority of the father is higher than that of the son. The "ceremony" gives the emperor a position similar to that of his father. Then, the emperor played the role of "father" throughout the country. Rites maintain political order and help emperors rule the country. Rites provide people with moral laws to maintain social order. Therefore, society can be stable. The Greeks were in the ocean and promoted economic development through maritime trade. As merchants, the Greeks encouraged novelty and change, and curiosity drove them to explore existence beyond sensory experiences, thus providing a theoretical basis for the emergence of metaphysics. Metaphysics encourages people to think beyond the world, hence its emergence. It is in line with social reality. Firstly, Western philosophers have a strong thirst for knowledge about unknown things. They not only focus on specific things, but also pursue a profound understanding of essence and principles. Curiosity drove them to explore existence beyond sensory experience, thus providing a theoretical basis for the emergence of metaphysics. As for monotheism, ancient Greek and Roman societies underwent significant changes from the 8th century BC to the 2nd century AD. With the formation of the city-state system, the development of commerce, and political stability, people began to pursue a higher spiritual life, hoping for a unified belief to meet their spiritual needs. In addition, ancient Greek and Roman philosophers raised many fundamental questions about the essence of the universe and human existence, such as what is the origin of the world? Is there a soul or a substance? These issues provided a theoretical basis for the emergence of monotheism. In summary, we cannot say that Confucius is inhumane. Because Confucius' thought of "propriety" was generated by the social needs in which he lived and was a response to the social needs of that time.

21级18班蔡燕鸿 • 2023-11-21

No, we can't. Firstly, the meanings of rituals can be divided into ceremony or etiquette, hierarchy, sincerity, and appropriateness. According to Kant's conception of freedom, act freely is to act autonomously, and to act autonomously is to act according to a law that I give myself. That is to say, as a part of rituals, organizing and structing social and personal behaviors can help us with forming rules to achieve our freedom. Secondly, agriculture which has dominated China since ancient times because of Chinese geographical conditions，relies on family work. Rituals help Chinese people with maintaining clansman concept to live and work in peace and contentment. Finally, the thought of Confucius in rituals is a way to help us to find out human emotional instinct and free spirit. As an important part of Confucianism, rituals do not directly deny human desire, but guide human desire to a good direction under the effect of rituals. So, we can’t draw the conclusion Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

龙泓杰 • 2023-11-21

1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice）

Freedom is a relative concept, which means that it is not absolute, but relative to the conditions and backgrounds of each person. Kant's idea of justice is that people should be free and equal, and that this is a moral standard. Kant believes that freedom is a moral right that should be respected and protected by the law. In his view people should have the right to determine their own behavior and destiny, and this right should not be restricted or violated.

2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

There are many reasons why the economic and political structure of traditional Chinese society requires "etiquette", among which some of the main reasons include:

①. Maintaining social order and stability: In traditional Chinese society, 'etiquette' is an important means of regulating people's behavior and maintaining social order. Through 'etiquette', harmonious social relationships can be established, social contradictions and conflicts can be reduced, and social stability and development can be maintained.

②. Promoting social harmony and unity: "Rites" emphasize the importance of order and distinction between elders and children, which helps to form good family relationships and social atmosphere, enhance people's cohesion and sense of belonging, and thus promote social harmony and unity.

③. Promoting economic development and cultural prosperity: "Li" is not only a moral principle, but also a cultural symbol and spiritual symbol. In ancient China, many important commercial activities and artistic creations were influenced by "Li", so the implementation of "Li" also helped to promote economic development and cultural prosperity.

3. Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

The difference between maritime countries and continental countries is mainly reflected in geographical environment, economic form, political system, and other aspects. Specifically, maritime countries are usually located in coastal areas, with fisheries and navigation as their main economic sources; Mainland countries, on the other hand, are located in inland areas, with agriculture and manufacturing as their main economic sources. In addition, the political systems of maritime countries and continental countries are also different. The former places greater emphasis on freedom, equality, and democracy, while the latter places greater emphasis on centralization, hierarchy, and obedience.

4. Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?

The main reasons for the emergence of metaphysics and monotheism in the Hellenistic tradition of Western culture are as follows:

①. Philosophical Speculative Tradition: Ancient Greek philosophers deeply pondered and explored the essence and significance of the world, forming a strong philosophical speculative tradition. This tradition continued until modern Europe and became an important component of Western culture.

②. Religious Reform Movement: With the continuous development of Christianity in the Middle Ages, some internal problems emerged, such as hierarchical system and church corruption. In order to solve these problems, some scholars in Europe began to carry out religious reform movements, advocating for freedom of belief, individualism, and secular spirit, thereby promoting the formation and development of Western monotheism. 3. Changes in social structure and values: With the development of capitalism and the arrival of social change, the social structure and values of the West have undergone changes. This change has led people to doubt and dissatisfaction with traditional religious beliefs, and to seek new ways of belief and spiritual sustenance, thereby promoting the popularization and development of Western monotheism.

10班蒋凌敏 • 2023-11-21

1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice）

Kant believes that freedom is an essentially unrestricted right and an essential attribute of human beings. He defined freedom as "autonomy," the ability to have free will. Autonomy is the basis for human beings to have the ability to act, and it is the inner strength that is not affected by external factors. Kant believes that human free will is not interfered by any external factors and is the untouchable core that exists deep inside human heart. The essence of freedom is the ability of human beings themselves, not the rights given by others or governments.

2.2.Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"

"Rites" is the core value of the Confucian ideological system founded by Confucius, an ancient Chinese educator and thinker. During the Spring and Autumn Period, Confucius inherited and developed the ancient concept of "rites" by summarizing, clearing and reflecting on the cultural heritage of the Xia, Shang and Zhou generations, endowed it with new ideological connotation, and creatively established a Confucian ideological system with "rites" as the core value concept. In the Confucian ideological system, "Li" not only includes the etiquette or rules in daily life, but also includes the systems and norms in various fields of Chinese ancient social life, and even includes the ideological concepts or moral rationality that are compatible with these systems and norms. "Rites" is the core category of Confucianism, which has extensive extension and rich connotation. From its connotation, in Confucianism, "ritual" is not only a social and political ideal, but also a moral norm. It maintains social stability and development by guiding, restricting and standardizing people's thought and behavior. In a sense, it can be said that ancient Chinese culture is the culture of "rites", ancient Chinese politics is the politics of "rites", and the development history of ancient Chinese society is a history of "rites". In ancient China, the developed degree of "Li" and its role in the whole national spirit and social politics have unique and great cultural significance.

3.Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

A continental country usually refers to a landlocked country, which has no sea area and is defended by other countries around the country. A maritime state is a country whose territory is surrounded by sea. A country with both land and sea refers to a country with main land area and close to the sea.
The difference between continental countries and maritime countries is mainly due to differences in production methods and culture. Continental countries with agriculture and animal husbandry as the main mode of production, relatively conservative thinking, cohesion is strong. With commercial trade as the main mode of production, maritime countries are more adventurous and have a strong sense of external development.
To sum up, the main difference between continental countries and maritime countries lies in production methods and cultural differences. The mainland countries take agriculture and animal husbandry as the main production mode, the thought is relatively conservative, and the cohesion is strong; With commercial trade as the main mode of production, maritime countries are more adventurous and have a strong sense of external development.

4. Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?

The Hellenistic tradition in Western culture provided the intellectual, cultural, and religious context that gave rise to metaphysical inquiry and the development of monotheistic beliefs, laying the foundation for the evolution of Western philosophical and theological thought.

In conclusion, we can't draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity. The basic point of Confucius' learning is to explain the truth of life and to talk about life. Confucius's "benevolence" takes into account both agreeableness and difficulty, which helps people to establish optimistic thoughts.
"Benevolence", which originally meant being kind to others or having a kind of sympathy, was developed into a doctrine and a philosophical view in Confucius. The isomorphism of family and state based on national patriarchal law is a family world based on family blood relationship in the era of agricultural civilization. The spiritual new line parallel to the genealogical structure of the family and the world is a series of matching benevolence thought of Confucius. The core of this benevolence thought is "benevolence". Starting from this core, it is Confucius' "benevolence lovers", and then "entering is filial piety, leaving is fraternal", which is another important meaning and another knot of Confucius' benevolence thought. Finally, he put forward "universal love for people", completing the basic construction of benevolence thought.

17班杜燕 • 2023-11-21

No, we cannot say that Confucius is in line with inhumanity as suggested by Russel.
According to Kant, merely acting to fulfill biological or psychological desires does not count as true free will and freedom. We are only freely choosing when we can act independent of those underlying causal determinates of desire and aversion.
Confucianism does emphasize social hierarchies, rituals, and proper conduct. But its overall aim is to cultivate harmony, morality, and humaneness in society. Rituals and structure are not inherently at odds with emotions or free spirit. They can help channel emotions constructively and give freedom and expression within approved social frameworks.The philosophy was not just about rigid social control.
Bertrand Russell was writing from a particular Western philosophical perspective in his time. His interpretation may not fully capture Confucian thinking and Asian cultural contexts.
Like any major philosophies, Confucianism is complex with different interpretations. Its application and impacts also depended on specific historical contexts.
So in summary, it seems an oversimplification to label the Confucius's idea of Li as "inhuman." It places great importance on rituals, etiquette, roles and responsibilities. It's essential for social cohesion and well-being, not inhumanity.

bonbon • 2023-11-21

Confucius is not in line with inhumanity.

Li or rituals is based on emotional instinct, emotion needs the guidance and regulation of Li or rutuals, and the two-way interaction between Li or rituals and human emotional instinctis both due to and limited.

"Rites born in love" is no different from icing on the cake, opening up a "downward" channel for love, making love intangibly "reside" in the rites, and then participate in and penetrate into a series of Li or rituals norms system, which is not only conducive to stimulating people's enthusiasm, but also conducive to promoting people to better observe the rites and obey the rites.

Of course, from the perspective of Li or rituals, the "joining" of emotion has undoubtedly become the internal basis of the rationality of the existence of etiquette, and to a certain extent, it can weaken and reduce people's resistance caused by the external standardization of Li or rituals, adding humanistic care and emotional temperature to Li or rituals.

As far as the relationship between Li or rituals and emotional instinct is concerned, the harmonious relationship between Li or rituals and emotional instinct not only helps to guide the standardized development of Li or rituals and emotional instinct, but also, as a relational connection, can better integrate and release the maximum value and function of the harmonious relationship between Li or rituals and emotional instinct.

The pursuit of freedom is unfettered, and Li or rituals as a social norm is binding. On the surface, the observance of Li or rituals and human freedom seem to be contradictory, but in fact the two are unified. As we have said above, there is no absolute freedom in the world that is completely free from constraints. In the real society, the behavior of free people is restricted by certain norms, so it is only relative freedom, and it is irrational to pursue absolute freedom.

The two should not interfere with each other,but if the idea is too old-fashioned and too stubborn, it will curb the development of personality. Indeed, if the development of personality is too excessive, it will touch the bottom line of civilization, resulting in conflict between the two.

All we have to do is get the most out of ourselves without getting in each other's way

2班黄思让 • 2023-11-21

Such a contention that Confucius is in line with inhumanity is absolutely unacceptable.

We can't deny that Li or rituals are about organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors, and according to Kant's idea of freedom, which illustrates freedom as we act autonomously based on our own will, not the ouside forces, it seems that Li conflicts with human emotional instinct and free spirit. But one thing we need to know, that is, social orders are indispensable. Otherwise, our society will full of turbulence and turmoil. So when our wills are on the contrary to collective benefits, we need to sacrifice something. What's more, we must realize that freedom is relative and absolute freedom does not exist in real life.

Based on the above words, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

20班刘艺 • 2023-11-21

No, we cannot say that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.
Confucius emphasized the importance of rituals and proper conduct in social and personal life. He believed that following Li helps to organize and structure behavior, promoting harmony and order within society. He believed that by adhering to rituals, individuals could cultivate virtues such as respect, harmony, and benevolence, which would ultimately contribute to a well-functioning and harmonious society.
Confucius' theory of benevolence reflects the spirit of humanity, while Confucius' theory of Li reflects the spirit of ritual system. Humanism is the eternal theme of human beings, which is applicable to any era and society, and order and system society are the basic requirements for the establishment of human civilized society. The core of benevolence is to be people-oriented, full of love, and start from the goal of caring for people, loving people, and developing people, so that the nation can achieve the best state of harmony. Li is a traditional Chinese value, which refers to social norms or customs formed according to certain ethics and morals. Li is the foundation of civilization, and in promoting the progress of human life. We should not regard politeness and moral constraints as unfreedom, and true freedom will be displayed in a wider world, rather than stopping at the basic quality of people.
Russell may have argued that Confucius' emphasis on rituals and proper conduct could limit individual freedom or go against what he considered to be essential aspects of humanity. However, it is important to note that different philosophers may have differing perspectives and interpretations of Confucian philosophy.
Therefore, It is not accurate to conclude that Confucius advocated inhumanity solely based on one interpretation or perspective.

13班张好 • 2023-11-21

1. There is a saying in the Shawshank Redemption: "Any place you don't like and can't live without, any life you don't like and can't get out of, is prison." For me, freedom is the ability to choose and refuse, to say No to anything you don't want to say or do. As the saying goes，“The real freedom is not about doing what you want, but about not doing what you don't want to do.” But freedom is always relative rather than absolute, because people always live under a "framework system", for example, you are a citizen of a country, then you will be bound by the laws of this country, you should abide by the laws and fulfill the obligations.

2. The "ritual" advocated by Confucius, or the understanding and attitude towards that, was actually to maintain the rule of the slave aristocracy. "Ritual" is not only a liturgical model to restrain the spirit, thought, and behavior of the people, but also a weapon used by the rulers of slavery or feudalism to rule all classes of society. In my opinion, in the ancients' ideology, the only way to make the ruled class mature, in addition to war, is to control their thoughts. Only when everyone behave according to the rules of etiquette, can the rulers' wishes and ideas be more in line with them.

3. The ancient Greeks and Romans mainly stuck with thought‘s freedom and political democracy, deeply believed in human values and dignity, and did not subject to any temporal authority. With the attitude of secularism and rationalism and adhering to the spirit of free exploration, positive thinking and continuous innovation, they have brought free and democratic humanistic ideas, optimistic and enterprising attitude towards life and their whole world.

4. No, we can’t think Confucius is in line with inhumanity, because Confucius not only believed that Li was necessary in personal behaviors and the development of social harmony, but also emphasized the importance of self-expression. Actually, Confucius thought one must being their own person under the certain social framework, and then he can appropriately participate in social interactions. As for Russell’s judgment of Confucianism as inhuman, I think it’s one-sided and biased. Over all these centuries, Confucian philosophy has evolved with the course of the times. Therefore, we should interpret it from a dialectical, comprehensive and developmental perspective.

肖雪佳 • 2023-11-21

No,we can’t draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

Freedom is the ability to act according to one's own will, which is of course conditional, limited by one's own ability, the information one possesses, and the constraints of the external environment, etc. However, one's consciousness can choose how to act autonomously according to the constraints of various conditions. So, freedom don’t refer to do what you want to do without any limitations.

Traditional Chinese society is made up of family and blood relations. While the law is emphasized, the traditional economic and political structure of China also pays attention to social morality, which is often referred to as "etiquette". It restrains people's speech and behavior in ancient times, and constructs a social order that is rich in spirituality with an order of seniority and inferiority. And based on the concept of common beliefs, people know what they should do and should not do.

Therefore, under such a social order, people have a common concept of doing things and comply with the same social culture. On the premise of not disturbing the order and not endangering society, people are free, and people's spiritual connotation is also rich.

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