中国文化导论及经典文本选读
中国文化导论及经典文本选读
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2020.02.24 ~ 2020.07.15
  • 四川外国语大学
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第2次开课

开始:2020-02-24

截止:2020-07-15

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21/21周

成绩预发布时间 2020-05-31

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讨论(5)

关于道家思想的四个视频,大家有什么疑问?可以相互回答或者讨论。

By 张婷 老师 2020-04-20 1550次浏览

关于道家思想的四个视频,大家有什么疑问?可以相互回答或者讨论。

62 回复

  • 2017级18班马怡萱 2020-04-20

    Tao is a very indescribable concept, which is sometimes even not well explained to ordinary Chinese, let alone for foreign readers to understand. Early sinologists used domestication in the process of translation (they obscured) the differences between eastern and western cultures) play a certain role in the dissemination of sinology, and the Chinese classics were more popular with foreign readers. With the continuous development of China, the previous translations are being revised, and the differences between Chinese and western cultures are gradually emerging.

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  • 1707秦娇 2020-04-20

    我注《老子》,《老子》注我。

    “道”字意义丰富,可译为“Tao”"Way" "Law" "truth".需要根据翻译的目的,采用归化或异化的策略,结合上下文来选词。

    关于“道可道,非道;名可名,非常名”许渊冲先生的译版在我看来比较切合老子哲学的方法论。“The divine law (or truth) can be known, but it may not be the law well-known to you (or well-known truth). Things may be named, but names are not the things.”天法客观之道是可以为人所认识,即“可知论”,但不是人们经常说的世俗观念的道理;万物可以取名命名,但是名字仅为符号,不等于实物。将“常”译为“well-known",这又与《老子》后继出现的“无欲” “无为”“无德” 有着微妙的联系。

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  • 17徐亮 2020-04-21

    What the difference between ZhuangZi's idea and LaoZi's idea?

    Can the understanding of Tao be regarded as the belief of Chinese?And why?

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    • 17班黄小玲 2020-04-26
      我用中文回答你的第一个问题 1、保全自己方法不同。 道家的第一阶段是杨朱,通过“隐”,逃离人世,遁迹山林来保全自己。老子道家第二阶段,通过“道”,也就是宇宙事物变化的规律,让事情向着有利于自己的方向发展,来保全自己。庄子是道家的第三阶段,庄子从“齐生死,一物我”的高度来看生死,超越现实的世界。 2、老子假无为,庄子真无为 3、老子寡情权谋,庄子善感人生。 相同处: 庄子思想是从老子思想发展而来,他把老子的道发展成主观唯心主义,把朴素的辩证法发展成为相对主义老子、庄子思想的共同点在于:他们都超越人生伦理价值层次,不重视现实人生善恶的区别。他们探讨的是人生最根本的存在价值问题,也就是生死价值的问题。 他们凭着自己真实的人生体验,描述了人生存在客观而永恒的依据:道,所以,人们称他们为道家。
  • 16班刘丹 2020-04-24

    Why Wuwei can achieve the purpose of wei?

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    • 18班刘梅 2020-04-25
      也许“无为”要“不妄为”,要“顺自然而为”。
    • 16班柯梦姣 2020-04-26
      我觉得老子的无为并非无所作为,是指顺应自然的规律而不加以人为的任何强制,强调尊重自然本性,自我完善,达到自我的思想顿悟,从而实现有为
    • 16班张明月 2020-04-26
      “无为”不是无所作为,而是不妄作为。因为不违背客观规律,遵循客观规律而为,所以无所不为
    • 16班曹巧 2020-04-26
      无为,就是不做任何违反自然规律,有损道德规范,违反社会法则和有害众生的事。这里的无为含有不妄为,不乱为,顺应客观态势,尊重自然规律。 老子说过“无为而无不为”意思就是说:不妄为,就没有什么事情是做不成的。
    • 2017级18班马怡萱 2020-04-26
      我认为这里老子说的“无为”并不是要限制或者刻意阻止某个人去做某件事情,老子的意思应该是凡事不要刻意为之,不然很可能适得其反,什么都做不成,类似于心急吃不了热豆腐一样的概念。
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  • 16班李双辰 2020-04-25

    what are the advantages and disadvantages of Dao?

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  • 袁金花 2020-04-25

    Daoism pays more attention to inner world. while Confucianism focuses more on external world.

    道的四种翻译:the metaphysical and transcendantal being, from which all beings are generated/Such laws as the law of the transformation of the opposites or of circulating movement/behavior norms/ the way

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  • 18班刘梅 2020-04-25

    老子的“无为而治”与儒家的“中庸”有什么不同之处吗?两者似乎都赞成“努力”的,但是我认为前者老子思想中的“努力”十分模糊和让人费解。

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    • 18范祎轩 2020-04-26
      老子的格局要更大一些,他本人提出的“无为”更多的是经过深度思考,对世界有了整体把握之后得出的结论。“无为”更像是西方经济学中常说的“看不见的手”,强调管理者掌控全局、洞若观火的能力。 孔子更多地考虑的是社会问题。所谓“中庸”针对的是社会中的个体,希望人的行为不要超出当时的礼制规定。 个人意见。。
  • 18班林华媚 2020-04-25

    Q:What is the difference between de or virtue in Confucianism and that in Daoism?

     

    Some notes: 

    Confucianism : of positivism-- personal and societal upbringing ✖

    Daoism: of pessimism-- retreat from cultivation ✖

    For both aim at balance: harmony-- make peace with the world.

    Difference: Confucianism: peace with the external world-- society & ethical regulations

    vs Daoism: peace with the inner world-- one's physical and mental state of being

    Dao: obscure, immaterial, still & solitary

    Dao: unfathomable, ineffable, indescribable (即“道不可道”)free from desire

    Methodology of Dao: Wuwei -- one no obsessed with what the name asks of oneself

    Wuwei: trying to separate "wei" from what "wei", to do usually entails, forgeting about what is entailed in "doing", and get what you want throug "not doing"

    The translation of Dao in Chinese: the metaphysical and transcendental being, the law of the transformation of the opposition, or circulating movement, behavior norms, and the way

    Why the missionaries view Dao as God: target readers, domestication-- convenient for the universality of Christianity

    Why foreignization: the declining of western belief

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  • 16班陈思懿 2020-04-25

    What's the difference between those versions of"道"?

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    • 17王思轶 2020-04-25
      The translators give different versions out of different purposes. 1.Christian God. This version was used by missionaries, early sinologists and philosophers in 18-19 centuries. They considered the target readers. “Christian God” was more understandable to the westerners. 2.The Way/Tao. The background was that people began to discover the alien cultures.
  • 16叶倩 2020-04-25

    How to understand that in Daoism, to do usually makes you away from what you want to get? Examples?

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    • 万倩倩17班 2020-04-25
      因为道家认为当人的欲望太多,极力想满足无穷的欲望时,所达到的结果适得其反。比如一个人非常喜欢吃,可是吃得太多导致噎食,反而给身体造带来了伤害。
    • 16秦佳佳 2020-04-26

      万事万物都有其自身的发展规律,当违背其规律时反而达不到自己想要的。就比如不正常的节食减肥,吃得少,难以维持身体机能正常运作,短时间内减肥效果明显,但极易反弹,这样不但没达成最初想要减肥的目的,而且对身体产生严重影响。所以按照正常的身体规律,满足基本需求,就能更易达到目标。

  • 17班曾柔茜 2020-04-25

    自汉武帝时期实行罢黜百家独尊儒术以来儒家思想就一直是中国社会的主流思想,与儒家思想相比起来,道家没有官方统治者的支持,也没有佛教的广大信徒,为何西方早期文化会将《道德经》中的道理解为基督教中的唯一神呢?如果这是当时的西方学者为“欧洲中心化”思想服务的手段,为何不选择传播更广地位更高的儒家思想反而要选择道家思想呢?

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  • 16班焦瑞阳 2020-04-25

    What is the practical significance of Laozi's Taoism to today?

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    • 18何佳遥 2020-04-25
      老子的“道法自然”在如今可以体现在重视生态幸福观,大力推进生态文明建设。以及老子主张的贵身、爱物、知足、节俭都是指导我们敬畏生命、适度消费、过“慢”生活的优良思想。再比如老子告诫有权有势的人要“直而不肆,光而不耀”去除身上的浮躁与炫耀,保持谦卑体下的精神。他的思想对于我们现在这个浮躁、快节奏的社会在各个方面都有很好的借鉴意义。
    • 17班米杨 2020-04-26
      当前,现代市场经济的快速发展和实用功利主义的过度膨胀,人们往往强调工具、手段的合理性,看重的是物质利益的满足,长远利益受到忽视。因而,和谐文化的建设出现了不和谐因素。“人文精神”的失落也催生了普遍的“人文困惑”。“看病难、看病贵、教育乱收费、住房价格过高”都属于“人文困惑”。 《道德经》可以很好的缓解此类问题。《道德经》向人们力陈过分追求“声色货利”所带来的危害,此有违社会“自然、无为、朴素”的和谐发展规律,并指出,唯有“知足”,方可长久;唯有“寡欲”,方能无咎。
  • 18班杨柳青 2020-04-25

    问题 I don't know the relation between "the highest form in the third realm" and "道". 

    理解"Dao" is something unclear,  obscure and has no name. Besides, it is also tranquil and still. 

    Wuwei  doesn't mean doing nothing and idle away, but doing things unpurposely/ deliberately.

     

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  • 16班李金励 2020-04-25

    To achieve truth and reality, why should we forget names? What is the essential relationship between desire, to use words and wuwei?

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  • 18罗菁 2020-04-25

    1. Confucianism&Daoism

    similarity: both aim at a kind of balance and harmony

    difference: C: make peace with the external world

                      D: make peace with the inner world

    2. Dao: unclear(immaterial)

                still&solitary

                tranquil(德)

    3. Daoism fatalsim: things in the universe are non-constant and keep changing(解构主义:truth is unspeakable)

    4. Desire(of naming): free from desire to experience reality 无欲

    5. four types of meaning of Dao:

       the metaphysical and transcendental being, from which all beings are generated

       such laws(规律) as the law of the transformation of the opposites(对立转化), or of circulating movement(循环往复)

       behavior norms

       the way

     

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  • 17班杨铠蔚 2020-04-25

    在“上善若水,水利万物而不争”的翻译"The greatest goodness is just like water,which is quiet, never attemps to be high, flows to the low."

    为什么在翻译中要加quiet来形容水。

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    • 18班徐钰昕 2020-04-26
      感觉这句话的意思是:最高境界的善行是像水一样,泽被万物而不争名利。所以我觉得用quiet应该是来形容它的默默无闻吧?
    • 2017级18班马怡萱 2020-04-26
      我觉得是不是因为水有一种“润物细无声”的感觉?这样才能和“不争”相呼应吧?
  • 18夏雨诗 2020-04-25

    I found it interesting that Dao is unnamable, and the Dao can be defined is not real Dao. It reminds me of what I learned in Linguistics class, the naming theory. I think maybe names help us to comprehend the world and spread our thinking in the first place, but they gradually fall into misunderstanding and limitation.

    Also I found the concept of Wuwei quite thought-provoking, but I wonder that can we say Wuwei stresses accumulation? Like, "don't be obsessed with your goal, and work hard every day"? If so, if one is really free from desire and obey the doctrine of Wuwei, and suppose he succeeds, can he still be happy (as he has no desire, so he has no sense of accomplishment)?

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  • 16班柯梦姣 2020-04-25

    As it is mentioned in the vedio, there are so many versions of translation of "Dao". So what are the differences among  them? How can we judge which one is better for the translation of Dao De Jing?

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  • 5班王孟珍 2020-04-25

    In Chinese exegetical tradition,  “道”has 4 types of meanings.

    1. the metaphysical and transcendental being, from which all beings are generated

    2. such laws as the law of the transformation of the opposites , or of circulating movement

    3. behavior norms

    4. the way

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  • 7班张瑞敏 2020-04-25

    What are the reasons for the spread of Taoism for thousands of years?

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  • 16班梅会涵 2020-04-25

    Three points to be noticed in the description of "dao":

    1. something unclear, obscure,everlasting

      unnamable "dao" engenders Heaven and Earth

    2. working in an everlasting way

    3. "still", "solitary"

    something still, quiet, exsisting without claiming

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  • 18班赵云洋 2020-04-25

    The translation of 道

    1. the metaphysical and transcendental being, from which all beings are generated

    2. such laws as the law of transformation of the opposites, or of circulating movement.

    3. behavior norms

    4. the way

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  • 18班杨晋斯 2020-04-25

    How to interpret "that desire as reflected in human language means the ofeten settled connection between a word and whtat it means?"

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  • 17班郎婉琪 2020-04-25

    They seek help and diverse thoughts from foreign wisdom. What kind of foreign wisdom is included?  Is there any other channel to seek help?

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  • 18杜颖 2020-04-26

    Q: In Dao De Jing, what does De mean? And what is the relationship between Dao and De? 

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    • 18班马艾玲 2020-04-26
      顺道为德。以道为体,以德为用。道家之德,非儒家之德。 In this material world, the secular etiquette essentially restrains the human nature, and Confucianism emphasizes to follow the rules of the secular etiquette. The taoists insist that you just go back to your natural nature. Dao De Ching is a book of preaching. The word Tao can be simply understood as the law between heaven and earth. One of the virtues of Taoism is to conform to the law between heaven and earth. Then go with your own nature. So the first part Dao Ching is about the nature of heaven, and the second part De Ching is about how to conply with the cycle of heaven and how to conform to one's own nature.
  • 17李可欣 2020-04-26

    Daoism aim at balance peace

    儒external society educated道inner-world

    其他宗教关于Form of Good

    1.something unclear obscure 

    2.everlastingway

    3.still and solitary

     

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  • 张慧敏 2020-04-26

    道家思想对于君权一直是“虚君”“无君”的态度,庄子“上如标枝,民如野鹿”,老子“不尚贤”,那么对于中央集权,君主专制逐渐加强的历史来说,道家思想是否有一定落后作用(小国寡民),或者阻碍发展,对于汉初统治者推行黄老思想,是否可以理解为是一种“药”,用来治愈急需修养的民生问题,西晋佛教传入,自后道家思想再未出现于政治舞台,是否可以理解为佛教是比道家思想更符合统治者利益的,那么总观来说,道家思想普遍不为统治者所提倡,是因为人们对其理解不够透彻呢还是已经认识到其某种阻碍进步的本质?

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    • 17班谢婷婷 2020-04-26
      可能是道家思想本身对统治起着阻碍作用。儒家认为治理国家应该通过一系列的章程和约束,主张的君臣父子严格的等级关系,这有利于巩固中央集权;而道家却与之相反,道家崇尚自然,有辩证法的因素和无神论的倾向,主张清静无为,反对斗争;提倡道法自然,无所不容,无为而治,与自然和谐相处。
    • 17雷涵 2020-04-26
      汉初的黄老思想与后期道家思想未出现在政治舞台可以看出道家思想擅于治理乱世,道家掌握自然和社会规律可以用于人民调养生息,但太平盛世却不利于统治者统治。儒家思想推行森严的封建等级制度,要求死忠君主,更符合统治阶级利益,维护社会稳定,地位和统治基础。道家思想在封建社会应该是阻碍了封建社会当时发展的自然潮流,而不被统治者提倡。
  • 17班冉鑫瑜 2020-04-26

    I still can't understand why Dao is achieved through the absence of desire. Is there any absolute relationship between the two? At this level, how do we understand the Dao related to desire?

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    • 17班谢运婷 2020-04-26

      desire: such a desire is in nature linguistic,trying to keep the referential relationship between words and their usual concepts.

      For example, "virtue" usualy refers"self-scrafice" or "women should be confined with household" at that time. But, if one even doesn not know the cause he is scraficing himself with, such endeavor is a kind og fooliness.

      So the Dao recipe is to forget about what is entailed in "doing", and then get what you want through "not doing". The story of "萧规曹随"reveals the opinion that to"do" does not mean to "busy up"oneself. We could break such settled approximate like"get up early and study hard to achieve success" , and to do the things in a harmonly way( to comply with the natural law,不妄为)

       

  • 16班杨忠雨 2020-04-26

    What can we learn from Dao today ? Is there have any meaningful  philosophy for present world and society? 

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  • 16熊淳 2020-04-26

    Much of the attrection of the Dao De Jing is the product of its very powerful rhtoric. It is written in a uniquely resonate style, and fortunately it is possible to capture some of this resonance even in English translation.

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