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A Disccusion on Confucianism

By 张婷 老师 2022-11-06 1608次浏览

Some people believe Li or rituals are about organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors, and thus seem to conflict with human instinct and free spirit. Then, can we draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity?  

15 回复

  • Ltranger 2022-11-09

    A set of principles aiming to organise people is indeed inhuman. But the problem is, what is Li, is it an outmoded convention? Ritual or Li is not just a tool to “standardise” people, according to Chuang-tzu, it’s the “fish-catching basket”. What we need to do is to fine the fish, not the basket.

    The Analects goes: ”A prince should employ his minister according to the rules of propriety; minister should serve their prince with faithfulness.” Here, the rules of propriety puts itself at the same level of faithfulness, which should be something comes from the bottom of one’s heart. Thus rituals can be seen as supporting ones heart, following human nature. I believe it is trying to wake our conscience, make the silenced part of our body embrace the idea of “仁”, triggering every individual to do good voluntarily.

    But I guess it is the misinterpretation by ancient imperial power secretly turned the usage of Li. According to Introducing Nietzsche by Laurence Gane, Nietzsche believes that culture and country is somewhat against each other. When Confucianism, as a cultural enlightenment, became a country’s tool, the idea of awakening would become a imperial and political organise, this is inhuman.

    Like all kinds of philosophy, misunderstandings credit Confucianism as outdated discipline. But Confucianism sparks its own wisdom, and always remains a great source of power for everyone.

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  • 1班刘睿朴 2022-11-09

    I think we should look at this issue in a dichotomy perspective. The core of the problem is "li", which, as a norm of individual behavior in the society, whether conflicts with human instinct and freedom.

    First of all, to some extent, the two sides are not in conflict.

    I. From the ideological level

    The core of Confucius' thought is "ren" and "li". For Confucius, "ren", is the true feelings and instincts of human beings, and "li " is the moral code mentioned above. Feng Youlan once mentioned in the History of Chinese Philosophy that a complete moral quality in Confucius' thought is the unity of "ren" and "li". But because one emphasizes personal freedom and the other emphasizes social norms, they are contradictory. But according to the philosophical principle of contradiction, contradiction is both opposite and unified.

    I think that although "li" restricts people's behavior, the freedom contained in "ren" can be displayed in the scope of "li". The real "li" must contain "ren"; Complete "ren" should also be combined with "li". Generally speaking, it means that people should pursue freedom within the scope of norms.

    II. From the social perspective

    Since“li”is the behavior of managing and organizing individuals and society, it is also a norm which conducts people to act properly in society. Feng Youlan said that "li" includes social organization, political system, social order and other superstructure. It should also include the content of economic foundation, but it is more prominent in the superstructure. In addition, modern society also has the superstructure, such as moral norms, laws and regulations, which constrain people's social behavior. And they are similiar to“li". Can we say that this is inhuman? As I said before,“li”plays a role as social norms. Although it cannot be equal to today's superstructure, its role in the society is much the same. We cannot leave "li", otherwise the society will collapse and become a mess. From this level,it still shows the principle that people should pursue freedom within the scope of norms.

     

    Second, Confucius' "li "also has limitations. While Confucius advocated “ren” and "li", he did not apply the two ideas to all human beings, but only limited them to the "real people" Confucius thought, that is, the people of slave owners and nobles, which is of class value. This kind of thought with class characteristics has actually suppressed human instinct and free spirit, because I understand that humanity should be born equal, but the existence of this slavery and class makes ordinary people at the bottom unable to enjoy the same "ren" and "li". This limitation is absolutely inhumane today. However, considering the social background, slavery was an unchangeable fact. In order to consolidate political rule, it was understandable that we could only promote class-oriented propositions.

     

    In a nutshell, Confucius' thought on “li” has both merits and limitations. We cannot simply believe that the “li” is absolutely beneficial to society, nor can we completely believe that it is an inhuman act that oppresses human nature.

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  • 1班李欣桐 2022-11-10

    To answer the question that whether Confucius is in line with inhumanity we should first fully understand what is Li.

    First and foremost, Li has multiple meanings. It not only refers to ceremonial decorum and hierarchical protocols, but also refers to the sincerity of practicing in people’s real life. Li is not a shackle which controls political order as well as people’s behavior, but an ideal value which prompts people to act properly in their lives. Li actually emphasizes that no matter in political field or in daily life, there is an inherent value orientation which guide people’s behavior. And such inherent value orientation comes from human instinct, which means that Li itself doesn’t conflict with human instinct and free spirit, and it isn’t in line with inhumanity.

    Secondly, according to Feng Youlan, what Confucius values much is the essence of Li rather than the form of Li. That is to say, Confucius doesn’t intend to limit human behavior through cumbersome ritual system, instead, what Confucius supports is people’s action out of their internal drive. It’s people’s good nature and their internal drive which propel them to practice Li sincerely in their real life.

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  • 2020级1班栗志童 2022-11-10

    To answer this question, we have to figure out the meaning of “Li”. First, what is commonly acknowledged is that “Li” is not simply a compulsive system of rituals. In Confucian Analects, the Chapter of Bayi reads “Lin Fang asked what was the first thing to be attended to in ceremonies. The Master said, ‘A great question indeed! In festive ceremonies it is better to be sparing than extravagant. In the ceremonies of mourning it is better that there be deep sorrow than a minute attention to observances.”(James Legge version). From this we can know that Confucius doesn’t stress the exterior overelaborate formalities, but the interior sincerity. In The Selected Analects of Confucius (《论语别裁》), Nan Huai-Chin maintains that “Li” is the cultural spirit, or cultural philosophy, which teaches Chinese how to “stand in the world” (立身). “The Master said, ‘If a man be without the virtues proper to humanity, what has he to do with the rites of propriety? If a man be without the virtues proper to humanity, what has he to do with music?’” (James Legge version). From this we can know that the base of “Li” is “Ren”. “Li” is the outward manifestation of “Ren”; “Ren” is the intrinsic requirement of “Li”.

    But what is “Ren”? The Chapter of Yen Yuen reads: “ Yen Yuen asked about perfect virtue. The Master said, ‘To subdue one’s self and return to propriety, is perfect virtue. If a man can for one day subdue himself and return to propriety, all under heaven will ascribe perfect virtue to him. Is the practice of perfect virtue from a man himself, or is it from others?’”, “Fan Ch‘e asked about benevolence. The Master said, “It is to love all men.”. From these statements, we can conclude that the core of “Ren” lies in the consideration of others. However, this doesn’t mean that to implement “Ren” is to unconditionally sacrifice ourselves. In History of China Philosophy – Newly-edited version(《中国哲学史新编》), Feng Yu-lan thinks that “Ren” is to “put oneself in another’s position” (推己及人), which is also known as the principle of “Chung” and “Shu”. He quotes a conversion from the Chapter of Xianwen: “When the love of superiority, boasting, resentments, and covetousness are repressed, may this be deemed perfect virtue?” The Master said, “This may be regarded as the achievement of what is difficult. But I do not know that it is to be deemed perfect virtue.” In The Explanation of Dialects (《论语疏证》), Yang Shuda comments that it is not doable to sacrifice oneself for others all the time (终日舍己徇人,亦不可行矣). Therefore, the practice of “Ren” is to retrain the selfishness desires of one’s own, not to repress all human’s nature.

    In Lecture Notes on Chinese Studies (《国学讲义》), Zhang Taiyan draws an analogy between Chuang Tzu’s “无我” and Yen Yuen’s “克己复礼”, and believes both of them have the underlying meaning of combining oneself with all things on earth, which is to integrate the smaller self (小我) into the larger self (大我). I think his opinion is quite illuminating. “Li” deals with something concerning the whole society and all humans, and more specifically, how the social structure works properly. Li Ling contains that the purpose of “Li” is to establish order through distinctions. Because it is impossible for everyone to be born completely “equal”, it is important and necessary to have a mechanism to prevent the agony and indignation stirred up by this inequality. “Li” is this mechanism.

    In Western philosophical tradition, there has long been a history of the “binary opposition" thinking model. Therefore, they might take “Li” as an external object, which is contradictory to the subject – human minds. However, as mentioned above, “Li” is the external manifestation of “Ren”, and “Ren” is not independent from human nature, but part of it. I deem that the principle of “Li” is like the performing of super-ego. Ego is driven by instinct and is immoral, while super-ego is the internalized conscientiousness to confine ego within a socially-accepted region. Only in this way can humans act properly in society, and that’s what “Li” tries to achieve. Likewise, LiZe-hou, in Nowadays Reading of the Analects of Confucius (《论语今读》), comments that one of the basic features of Confucianism is the modification of human minds, which means to seek a balance between reason and emotions. For example, in the Chapter of Tsze-chang, Tsze-yew said: “In mourning, if grief is fully expressed, stop there.” In The Book of Rites, it also says “Illness caused by excessive sorrow is equal to unkindness and unfilialness.” (不胜丧,乃比于不慈不孝。----《礼记·曲礼上》). A man may wail out of sorrow in his beloved’s funeral. But if he falls ill because of that, the sorrow is over the top. And that’s where “Li” comes into play – to restraint human feelings in a healthy limitation.

    According to Chu His, although “Li” is strict in form, it follows the natural law (盖礼之为体虽严,然皆出于自然之理). LiZe-hou has similar opinions in Nowadays Reading of the Analects of Confucius (《论语今读》). He comments that “Li” is humanity, which includes culture and anything else. And “rule by rites (礼治)” is different from “rule by law (法治)”, and even opposes to the repression and stiffness of law. In that sense, how could “Li” be inhuman?

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  • 1班_陈渝楠 2022-11-10

    In fact, I think Confucianism is in line with humanity.

    First of all, let me explain why some people may consider the Confucian emphasis on 'Li' to be inhumane. For fundamentally they believed that the Confucian emphasis on 'Li' was the result of the sages' logical and rational thinking, which had led to a dogma detached from human beings. As Nietzsche refers to Egyptianism in The Twilight of the Idols, “Those so-called philosophers believe that when they look at a thing from a non-historical, eternal point of view - when they mummify it - they are paying homage to that thing. For thousands of years, everything that philosophers have dealt with has been a mummy of concepts. There is no real thing in the world ,and the real thing can’t escape their clutches." Rational thinking inherently suppresses human nature somehow, allowing people to abandon the "心" of the world in favor of thinking about life with their minds. So, what is called truth through rational logic, starting from an eternal perspective, eventually becomes a rigid dogma detached from human beings, a truth of the ideal world, a logical truth, rather than a truth of the real world. And some would argue that 'Li', that is how it is produced, is a mummy of a concept produced through the logically rational thinking of Confucius and Mencius, whereas this is not actually the case.

    First, methodologically speaking, Confucianism's Confucius and Mencius are not conceptual philosophers in the sense that Nietzsche would have them. They are not identical in terms of the way in which they reach truth. Confucianism has always stressed that the Way of Heaven is in the lives of the people. the primary texts for Beginner The Great Learning says: “The teaching of the Great Learning is to manifest one' s illustrious virtue, love the people, and rest in the highest good.” (大学之道,在明明德,在亲民,在止于至善。)The way of “rest in the highest good” and the approach of “manifest one' s illustrious virtue“ are “love the people”; In The Doctrine of the Mean, Confucius says: "The Tao is not far away from people. People can't be far away from people because of the Tao.” (道不远人,人之为道而远人,不可以为道。)It is thus clear that Confucianism is this worldly. Confucius always emphasized that truth should be sought in people's lives, to be realized in real life, rather than just thinking with the mind and regulating people with rational concepts. How can such a doctrine, which takes "human beings" as the object of study, and which is "human" in every way, deviate from humanity?

    Second, ontologically speaking, the "Li" emphasized in Confucianism comes from the same source as the "humanity". Mencius once said: “The feeling of commiseration is the beginning of human-heartedness. The feeling of shame and dislike is the beginning of righteousness. The feeling of modesty and yielding is the beginning of propriety. The sense of right and wrong is the beginning of wisdom. Man has these four beginnings, just as he has four limbs.” (恻隐之心,仁之端也;羞恶之心,义之端也;辞让之心,礼之端也;是非之心,智之端也。人皆有是四端,犹其有四体也。) Everyone has "four beginnings," because everyone has a "心“;People have "Li" only because they have a " The feeling of modesty and yielding ";It is because of the "心" that man has his "humanity";First there is its "心", then there is its "Tao". And the kind of philosopher Nietzsche refers to in The Twilight of the Idols is: “Another idiosyncratic reflection of philosophers that is equally dangerous is the confusion of the beginning and the end. They set up the last thing that appears - alas! for it should never have appeared at all - as the "supreme concept", that is to say, the most universal, the emptiest concept, placing the last fumes of the evaporating reality as the beginning to the beginning." Such philosophers use their reason to think about “Tao” before honing their “心“, putting the cart before the horse. discipline outside “心”,how to be humane. This is not the case with the Confucian doctrine. "Li" is a manifestation of human life and emotions, what is humane or not, it comes from the human "心". As the Sixth Patriarch Huineng said: “何期自性,能生万法。” The "Li" is a form of "万法".

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  • 1班李言言 2022-11-10

    Confucian tradition can not be interpreted as freedom does not mean that freedom is incompatible with the Confusion tradition, and that the Confusion tradition is inferior to the western liberalism.

     

    Confucianism and liberalism reach a consensus on political liberalism. Chinese culture is based on the theory of the goodness of human nature, and because human nature is good, people can be trusted. Since people can be trusted, they should be allowed to govern themselves. This leads to the principles of freedom and democracy.

     

    While Western liberalism is based on individualism, Confucian liberalism tries to strike a balance between individualism and collectivism. For Confucians, pure individualism is in conflict with the Confucian tradition and is therefore unacceptable. Pure collectivism, on the other hand, tends to move towards centralisation, which are also unwilling to accept. Therefore, the best approach is to strike a balance between individualism and collectivism.

     

    Classical liberalism regards freedom as taking precedence over equality, and so to some extent leads to a loss of the value of justice with equality at its core. Confucian liberalism, on the other hand, attempts to avoid this deficiency by focusing heavily on equality centred on social justice. Since Confucius and Mencius, it has been a Confucian tradition to "not worry about scarcity but about inequality". They believed that the state had a duty to 'nurture' and 'teach' the people, and that it therefore had a duty to regulate social injustice.

     

    Let's turn our attention to the issue over the relationship between the individual and the group. First of all, Confucianism never considers the individual as an isolated being; on the contrary, man is defined as a social being. As Hu Shi said: "The Confucian philosophy of life assumes that the individual cannot exist alone, but that all actions are acts of human interaction". There is no doubt that Confucius' fundamental goal is to 'become a man among men'. Once an individual leaves the crowd, he or she can achieve nothing, and Ren is nothing unless it is placed within the framework of the social world. Confucianism emphasizes the value of the individual, but Confucianism is not individualism, it is collectivism. Confucianism stresses that the realization of individual value must be based on the realization of social value. In other words,  the individual can only manifest his or her value if he or she contributes to society and the collective.

     

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  • 一班金泓宇 2022-11-10

    In my opinion, we can’t draw the conclusion that “li is in line with inhumanity. Further the etiquette “Li” organizes and structures our society and human being.  

    As the old saying tells, “nothing can be accomplished without norms and standards”. The Confucian Confucianism ritual is a kind of principles which lead the society and human beings’ proceeding. It is measured on three aspects.

    First “Li” guides the governor to administer whole country. Zuo Zhuan says “ Li governs the country, stabilizes the society, orders the people, benefit the descendants. (礼,经国家,定社稷,序人民,利后嗣也。 《左传》).Li is the first principle to govern the country, the foundation to empower society. If the king governs the country following “Li” the country will thrive in the world. On the contrast, if the king obey “Li” the country will falls down or destroy.

    Second, “Li” improves people’s behaviors and manners. Environment influences and restricts development of people. Favorable environment can promote human’s growth positive. Terrible environment makes against human development. Mencius mother moves three times to find a fitted atmosphere which can benefit the growth of her son. Li is key to develop a favorable atmosphere. First some saints draw some etiquettes. Then normal people learn from the “Li” becoming noble men. After that noble men inherit and consummate etiquettes.

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  • 1班张涵 2022-11-10

    In my opinion, Confucianism is in line with humanity. I believe Li or rituals advocated by Confucius do not conflict with free spirit. And Li makes human instincts develop for the better. By practicing Li, people can gain real freedom.

    1.What is Confucian free spirit?

    The ultimate freedom of Li that Confucius pursues is well reflected in the Analects. Confucius said, “…at seventy I could follow the dictates of my own heart without transgressing the norm.” We can see that Confucian freedom is not a simple idea of no rules, but to do anything without against his own will, at the same time not go beyond the rules. Chinese philosopher Feng Youlan put forward the theory of the “Four Realms in Life”: Natural Realm, Utilitarian Realm, Moral Realm, and Heaven Realm. These four realms reflect the successive order of four stages of thought. In the first Natural Realm, man exists in the form of creatures that rely on instincts; in the second Utilitarian Realm, man centers on utilitarianism; in the third Moral Realm, man takes morality as his duty. Even the highest of the first three realms, Moral Realm, is not a completely free realm, because there is still “duty”. Man in Moral Realm is limited by external purposes, which means he still pursues an external goal. And in the fourth Heaven Realm, man is free to see, hear, speak, and act without thinking. In other words, man is not bound by external purposes, and all things he does are in accordance with the virtue of heaven. The fourth realm is perfectly in line with the free spirit of Confucius, which is the real freedom that we seek.

    2.What is real freedom?

    As mentioned above, Confucian freedom is to follow the dictates of his heart and at the same time not transgress the norm. Someone may argue that this is still under the constraints of rituals, not the real freedom. But constrains are not something to be criticized. If freedom is equal to no constraint, then a person can do whatever he wants without any legal liability, which will undoubtedly wreak havoc in society. And it is obviously not the kind of freedom we praise and sing about. The same is true of instincts. If human instincts develop in a haphazard way without any interference, it is not an ideal state for both individuals and society. In fact, since human beings entered the age of civilization, they have been in all kinds of constraints. Humanity’s entry into civilization and its departure from animal instincts must have occurred simultaneously. Maria Montessori, the Italian educational thinker, relies heavily on the concept of “freedom within limits” in her philosophy. Only freedom within limits is real freedom, otherwise it will be a disaster for civilization. Freedom should be under certain limits, and if such limits are justified and legal, the freedom achieved on this basis can be called real freedom.

    3.How to achieve real freedom by practicing Li?

    If we want to gain freedom in the process of practicing Li, we need Ren. This is because Ren, as the foundation of Li, ensures that rituals are in accordance with the common sense of man and the virtues of heaven. The most important Confucian concept of virtue is Ren, which is usually translated as benevolence, humanity, kindness, and so forth. Ren contains the meaning of love, but it is more than general love, and it can only be applied to people, as Mencius said: a superior man loves all creatures but shows Ren (benevolence) to people only (Mencius 7A:45). Therefore, according to Mencius, if there are well-fed horses in the stables of the king of a state, yet his people look hungry and in his countryside men perish from starvation, this king can never be considered a ruler with the virtue of Ren (Mencius 1A:4). The actual connotation of Ren indicates a profound humanistic care for human being, advocating love and respect among human beings with the rule of “what you do not wish yourself, do not do unto others” (Analects 12:2; 15:24). Confucian freedom is an act prompted by the flow of emotion from the heart, that is, Ren.

    It is true that Confucian Li is closely related to ceremonial decorum and hierarchical protocols, but the essence of Li is sincerity of practicing and appropriateness. If a person understands the connotation of rituals and then initiatively practices the ritual activities with sincerity, then he can enjoy the freedom to choose his own behaviour, because Ren comes from himself and is a choice of his own will. And if the inner thoughts are correct in any situation and all instinctive reactions are in line with Ren, then there is no need for any tangled analysis and judgment. In other words, if you know what to do in any situation, you will be able to “follow the dictates of my own heart without transgressing the norm”. In this way, one does not feel the constraint of the rules anymore and all actions are the expression of one’s true feelings from the heart. The choices one makes are in accordance with both the external form of ritual and one’s own internal perception and choice. Only this kind of freedom can be called real freedom. Such instincts are the instincts that we cherish. Overall, the question of freedom has always accompanied human civilization. The exploration and pursuit of freedom is an eternal topic. I believe the meaning of freedom is not just a result or a fact, but a process of realization. Confucian freedom is a process of realizing the transcendence of the inner spirit, and its external manifestation is the practice of Li based on Ren.

    4.Conclusion

    To sum up, Li or rituals advocated by Confucius is the process of pursuing infinite Ren in a finite life, which is the affirmation of the human initiative, the correct development of human instincts, and the realization of real freedom. Therefore, instead of being inhumane, Confucian Li is a great humanitarian thought that is still enlightening for today’s people.

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  • 1班刘晓明 2022-11-10

    Confucius is in line with humanity. Freedom makes sense when there is a boundary, a restriction. Li in the Chinese traditional culture helps build up the temperaments of people unobtrusively and imperceptibly. As Confucius said,"It is by the Rules of Propriety that the character is established." In terms of the theory of entropy, the world is always in disorder. Li as a spiritual tool effects. Restrain ourselves and follow social norms. 

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  • 1班阿非莫沙日 2022-11-10

    I don't think Confucius is in line with inhumanity. I think Li is not a constraint on human nature but on human animal instincts. Instead,I think, Li is the base of humanity, which helps us to develop our real humanity and constrain our animal instincts.  It is Li that makes us differ from animals. So I don't think Confucius is in line with inhumanity. 

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  • 1班胡曼 2022-11-11

    Li is not line with inhumanity, but to ensure higher freedom by restraining animal attributes so as to realize man's social attributes. Generally speaking, the predecessors' definition of Li was mainly to use etiquette to regulate people's behavior and maintain social order. Aristotle said, "Man is a natural social animal." With the constraint of rituals, people have exceeded animal attributes and then obtained social attributes, making people a full man.The social attributes contain of a higher level of consciousness, which is “Self-discipline is freedom”. Kant spent his whole life practicing his concept , exercising rituals to help himself maintain a quiet and clear state. He retained his daily thinking state by insisting on the ritual of walking regularly every morning. Another example in point is that many great men including Steve Jobs developed the habit of meditation, who regard meditation as a ritual to control their emotions, think about themselves, control themselves, and make correct decisions.

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  • hhr 2022-11-11

    I don't think Li is against human nature or restrain free spirit. Li is like traffic rules. This rules are indispensable for social wellness. Only in a civilized society can individual liberty being ensured. As confucius said,"礼之用,和为贵". Li, in confucius' original doctrine, is based on harmony. What matters is that everyone put themselves in the right possession and work together for a harmonious society. Such an idea conforms to modern concept of freedom, that each person can enjoy their own freedom, but nobody is free to take sb else's liberty. Some people may take Li as the absolute right of a group of dictators, and no freedom for the common people. In fact, in confucius'doctrine, the only difference between the ruler and the people is that they are playing different role. "君君,臣臣,父父,子子". Everyone should fit themselves into the role. Each one enjoys limited freedom, and everyone,as a whole, can enjoy the most of harmony and freedom.

     

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  • 1班李雯嘉 2022-11-11

    In my opinion, we can’t draw such a one-sided and arbitrary conclusion with those general materials.

    At first, we should clarify that the conception of li in Confucius is different from that in Zhou dynasty. Li in Confucius is a lot more than physical rituals, the mental meaning also included.  In the Analects of Confucius, the Confucius said:” 人而不仁,如礼何?”, which shows the inseparable relationship between Li and Ren.

    Of human nature, Good or evil, that is a question. So we can't say that what follows human instinct is right and what against is wrong. So is free spirit. Is absolute freedom the best? I don’t think so. Rousseau said " Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains.” Human beings are social animals and chained by social regulations. However, Sociality is also a part of human nature. Confucius has noticed it. Li Zehou wrote in his reading of the Analects of Confucius that Confucianism attaches great importance to the cultivation of human feelings and the integration of animal (desire) and social (reason). In the new edition of the history of Chinese philosophy Mr. Feng Youlan said that A personality is always a personal personality. But in this personality, there are social organizations, social systems, social order, the relationship between individuals and society, as well as the relationship between people in society, which are all involved in a complete personality. In that time, these were called Li. So there is no collision between li and human instinct.

    As the Oxford English Dictionary notes, inhumanity is the fact of not having the usual human qualities of kindness and pity. It is totally contrary to what ceremony conveys. Li Zehou said that Confucius attach great importance to morality and Li can reflect this character. According to Mr. Feng Youlan's perspective, People have public and private spirits which consists of a complete character. Good done in private spirits is called Ren and good done in public spirits is called Li. If everyone did a Great Harmony Society would be built. That is the highest wish of Confucius.

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  • 1班黄朴石 2022-11-11

    I don’t quite understand what “human instinct and free spirit” exactly means and why “organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors” goes against “human instinct and free spirit”. I don’t know whether this “human instinct and free spirit” refers to total freedom and if so, I think it’s ridiculous. There is no way humans can reach total freedom before our society falls apart. Humans operate freedom within the framework of society and need a stable society to ensure their freedom. So the “human instinct and free spirit”, in fact, requires a successfully functioning society, which is exactly where the “organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors” goes. So I think that “organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors” is a way of performing “human instinct and free spirit”.

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  • 1班龚芷菁 2022-11-11

    Actually, I do not agree with this conclusion, which I think is one-sided, and only sees “li” superficially.

    We all know there is a rule that when your parents die you have to be in mourning for the death for three years. Why three years? According to Confucius, it is because during the first three years of our birth, we are totally incapable of living without our parents. Therefore, the ritual is not unfounded and coldly rigid. And when Yanhui died, Confucius was considered as mean and cruel who was unwilling to buy a shell for his favourite student. But the people only saw the surface but not the deeper meaning. When there is public-acknowledged law, no one should easily break it out of emotion, otherwise it could lose the authority and everyone could find excuses to break it. In this story, we can not say Confucius was not in sorrow and pain. Some personal feelings are buried inside which won’t show to the public.

    To obey the “li”, is not to mean be against human nature. We can be in a ritual to show our sincere respect or filial piety, but what Confucius emphasis is your heart.

     

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